TRANSCRIPT
Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Bruce Billson interview with Leon Delaney.
2CC Canberra
Subject: Economic Roundtable
Leon Delaney
Tomorrow it will be 2 weeks since the commencement of the federal government's economic reform round table, which was originally being promoted as a productivity round table.
So, was the productivity round table actually itself productive? According to the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman, yes it was, Bruce Billson, good afternoon.
Bruce Billson
Leon, great to be with you and your listeners.
Leon Delaney
So, you've given the economic reform round table, a pass grade, why is that?
Bruce Billson
I think it was a good opportunity to put on the table, the things that are really needed to lift productivity, business vitality, incomes for households and deal with some of the sluggishness in the economy.
It started out as productivity, that was the key word, but I think you and I've discussed before that productivity is a word that ‘sort of’ grates on many people, they think it's like having to do more for less, and I'm going to miss out, and something's going to be bad for me.
When really, it's about new possibilities, new opportunities, new ways of creating wealth and thankfully, after a lot of people were talking about more taxes and more government programs, it seemed to get back to what we really need to do to energise enterprise.
Leon Delaney
Now, you and a lot of other people too I might add, have observed that the 3 days talk fest, didn't really show much sign of reaching consensus until right at the end. On the last day, all of a sudden, everybody started to agree about stuff, were you surprised by that?
Bruce Billson
Well, I think it showed hosting dexterity by the Treasurer, because it was clear that the very able people around the table, all had different agendas and different objectives, and not all of them sat neatly with the idea of productivity and being able to afford the things we expect government to do for us.
Bruce Billson
Thankfully, it seemed to come back to that. I thought his summation really drew a lot of those themes together, and it seemed quite late in the piece that there were some streams of consensus. That seems to be what's come out and what they've called the reform directions, and then there was a little bit of encouragement to get on with the number of government initiatives that are already underway. So yes, wasn't looking good there for a while, but it seemed to come home with a reasonable outcome.
Leon Delaney
Okay, so the reform directions are headed by something called better regulation. Now that's pretty vague, isn't it I mean, better regulation, could mean all sorts of worrisome things, couldn't it?
Bruce Billson
Well I know what it means for small business Leon, and that's regulation that's proportionate, its right sized, it's relevant to their circumstances and that means hearing and seeing small business, very early in the process that government goes through when someone's got an idea about more regulation.
Small businesses aren't shrink-wrapped big corporate firms. They don't have a fraction of the legal specialist, the HR expert, they are doing all of it themselves. And being right-sized is really seeing that, it's reflecting the risk, so it's proportionate, and then it's asking things of small business that can actually be implemented with proper support to get things done.
So, what I've been doing is saying, well, what is better regulation?
Well, it's about right sizing it. It's about conceiving of it in a more collaborative way, it's also about understanding that you can't regulate your way out of every issue you might have, and we need to be a little more discerning about when we're putting new compliance obligations on time poor people.
Leon Delaney
Some people are a little more cynical, though of course, and I was speaking with the ACT Shadow Treasurer Ed Cox earlier today, and he reminded me that 25 odd years ago, people were saying we need to cut red tape. We still haven't done it.
Bruce Billson
No, that's part of the submission we made was we need to be more active in not just what we're creating that's new, but in actually looking at what's already existing.
The other thing too Leon, regulatory and compliance burdens aren't only coming from government.
If you and I were supplying a major corporate with the goods or services as part of their supply chain, those big companies are being asked to report on climate emissions and have reporting obligations. And what they're doing is they're coming to their small business suppliers and saying, “Hey, Leon, Hey, Bruce, what are your emissions?” And so those things intended to land on big corporates are actually cascading down to small business. I call that white tape.
Bruce Billson
So, when you're talking about those compliance and regulatory burdens, it’s not just government and red tape, its actually what businesses are doing to other businesses, asking more and more from time-poor small businesses that are really battling to keep their head above water.
Leon Delaney
Now the rest of the directions include things like a better tax system, again, that could mean anything.
Attracting capital, well, that's always a good idea.
Building a skilled and adaptable workforce - that’s a no-brainer.
Modernising government services well wouldn't that be nice.
Building more homes more quickly as you've pointed out, particularly in regions where a lack of housing is a significant issue, but the one I wanted to focus on briefly is deciding how to make AI a national priority, because I think a lot of people are still very concerned about the impact of AI and whether or not it might hurt as many people as it helps.
Bruce Billson
That's the debate that's going on. A lot of consumers and citizens are saying “hey we need to regulate this more so bad things don't happen.”
What we've been saying is, as that compliance burden or what you could describe as the business of running the business, the back-end stuff becomes more onerous and more complicated, AI can really help streamline that. So, what we're saying is this could be a real asset and an ally for small business.
Let's not overreact in making it too hard to access. We see big firms are starting to access it, what can we do to help small businesses tap into those and other digital tools so they can put more time and effort into delighting customers and heaven forbid Leon, actually having a life themselves and spending some time with their families.
Leon Delaney
I think we've already seen enough evidence, though that if we fall into the trap of allowing AI to make final decisions then we are asking for trouble. We need AI ultimately, to be under the supervision of actual human beings, just to make sure it doesn't go off the rails anywhere.
Bruce Billson
Correct.
I mean, it's got a great capacity to assemble information in a very short period of time, but when it comes to judgement, when it comes to enabling its use in a human environment there needs to be a person in the mix. You can't just outsource your responsibilities for being a good business or the way you interact with people or even the judgments and decisions you're making, to technology without appropriate stewardship of it, and really, that also goes to that goes to the heart of the reputation of your business.
Bruce Billson
So, what we're saying is, yes of course, there needs to be, particularly when it comes to life-changing decisions, access to finances is an example where a human needs to actually make the final call.
There is help that AI can provide, but there's still responsibility and care needed in the way it's deployed, and particularly for small businesses, you're not going to get away with filing a bad tax return, if it's found to be wrong and you go “AI made me do it.” That's hardly an explanation either, but compiling the data, getting yourself ready to look at it, make sure you're fulfilling your obligations, that's something that would be a great advantage to time poor small businesses.
Leon Delaney
Indeed, Bruce thanks very much for your time today.
Bruce Billson
Always fab to be with you Leon, take care.
Leon Delaney
Thanks very much Bruce Billson, the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman.